New build questions and suggestions

[ClankChiken]

With the introduction of Crysis I'm considering building another computer or buying a pre-build (from either NewEgg or TigerDirect). I don't have cash for "leading edge" stuff so I'm looking at middle or even slightly back edge. I would like a 2.9 or 3.0ghz ATX Gaming/Business Vista/Windows 7 system to include, motherboard, cpu, memory and video. I'm not really committed to any one brand although, my previous builds, I've used AMD CPU's on MSI and ASUS motherboards, and I've always used ATI video cards. I realize there are a lot of options but it's been a while since my last build and I haven't followed the trade rags enough to keep up with what works and what burns up.

CPU - Intel or AMD ? Duo, Duel, Quad, 64 x2, Phenom
Socket - 479, 775, 940, AM2/AM2+, LG1366/B
Motherboard - MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, Biostar, EVGA ?
Chipset - Intel, NVIDIA ?
NorthBridge - AMD, NVIDIA
Video - NForce or ATI, PCI or SLI ?

I realize all this is predicated on Intel or AMD. If I had to pick I'd say "price and speed". :ohyes :gaga

I suspect there may be a few horror stories about one or the other and believe anyone can buy a "lemon". :protest

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. :bs

[DysedChiken]

This is just my two centavos Clank...but should be a good ride for a couple years for ya.

Intel Quadd Core (biggest your dollars can afford, I am currently running a Quad 2.4 GHz 1066 FSB and it passes handsomely on the Crysis test)
Asus Wifi Solo MB (has hardwired and wireless conns and a ton of great features)
I have 4GB Ram on board but I would suggest a min 2GB ram at the least
Soundblaster (best your bucks can afford)
I have 512-MB Nvidia 8600GTS video cards hooked SLI and they are a cracker with graphics....
Antec mid-supercooled. (virtually quiet as church mouse)
Dual DVD Burners
2-500 meg raid sata drives (I would suggest at least one for starters)
I have two Samsung Synmaster-22" Flat panel monitors 3000:1 contrast ratio....excellent quality at a reasonable price.

Do yourself a favor (and don't tell Druid I agree with him cause he still thinks I don't) if you build a system with a Quad core...do what I did not and make the jump to a 64 bit operating system to get the most out of the bitching ram and 1066 FSB.
This cost me 2k last fall...I just priced it and I can do the same system again for around 1400 now.

Processors are bitchin now and have come down in price considerabley and they are due to come down again at the end of the month.....so buy a good Mobo that has some upgradability in it if you scrimp on the processor.

And that was just my two centavos....I bet your regret asking now LOL!!

BAWK!

[DruidChiken]

On price and speed AMD Phenom x4 is the option to go.

Ive been used Asus m/b on several builds now and they are good solid boards @ a good price, on graphics personally i think ATI have lost the out to the new gen of Nvidias, the ATI 48 series are very good but i always go for Nvidia

The GeForce 9800 is a good buy and will handle Crysis on high with no issues if u couple it with a Phenom


And dont scrimp on RAM, its cheap now and for a gaming system u really need 3 or 4 gb to avoid bottle necks with current high end games

[DysedChiken]

Don't listen to the welshman he is front man for Hot running processors LMAO!!!!!

[ClankChiken]

I love it. You guys are great! I think your both right on target with specs. I didn't mention it earlier but I plan on making the jump to Vista 64 bit. I use it at work and it's time to make the leap at home, plus Windows 7/Vienna is coming.


I was going for 4mb ram minium with upgrade potential, always. My understanding of Quad vs Duo is processing multiplier. I could be wrong but if I go 2.5ghz on a quad system, I'm really looking at something like twice the "old school" processing speed? How far off is that discription?


This looks pretty good with room to expand: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229046 and it's half the price I paid for the new 50" plasma my wife made me buy for Christmas. :headbang Might be a "keeper". If I build it myself I could save a few bills' on software, case, keyboard and mouse. Naaah, too lazy.

Can the new mbo's/cpu's be successfully overclocked?

As always, Thank you all for your continued feed back and support.

[SmuttyChiken]

This is my current spec ...

ASUS AM2 [M2N32-SLI-Deluxe] Wireless Edition - nForce 590 chipset MOBO
AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core Black Edition, AM2+, 2.5GHz, 4MB Cache
Dual ASUS EN8600GT 512's in SLI
Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX 4GB Twin2X PC-6400 (800MHz) DDR2 RAM
2X 250GB Samsung 'SpinPoint' 7200 RPM SATA-II 8MB

The MOBO is over 2 years old and I have just flashed the bios to accept Quad core and am hoping to have it for another couple of years ... I have had ASUS MOBO's for the last 5+ years and have only had two in that time both have never given any trouble ... considering the old one still powers Kamakazi's puter ...

The chip is overclockable from 2.5 to 3.5 MHz but I understand most only go as far as 3.2GHz and it is very stable at that ...

The cards are also overclockable ... as is the RAM (I think)

You should be able to overclock most of the newer hardware these days ...

I went the 'owner builder' route a few years back and have so far enjoyed the experience and saved a couple of dollars along the way ...

Good luck buddy ... Bawk!

[DysedChiken]

I love it. You guys are great! I think your both right on target with specs. I didn't mention it earlier but I plan on making the jump to Vista 64 bit. I use it at work and it's time to make the leap at home, plus Windows 7/Vienna is coming.


I was going for 4mb ram minium with upgrade potential, always. My understanding of Quad vs Duo is processing multiplier. I could be wrong but if I go 2.5ghz on a quad system, I'm really looking at something like twice the "old school" processing speed? How far off is that discription?


This looks pretty good with room to expand: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229046 and it's half the price I paid for the new 50" plasma my wife made me buy for Christmas. :headbang Might be a "keeper". If I build it myself I could save a few bills' on software, case, keyboard and mouse. Naaah, too lazy.

Can the new mbo's/cpu's be successfully overclocked?

As always, Thank you all for your continued feed back and support.

Just remember....don't tell the Welshman I agree with him on the 64 bit issue.....aw heck go ahead he won't believe it anyway.

Essentially your correct on the processor. Duo is 2x...quad is 4x in simple terms. You need to make sure that ram, FSB and the processor all have the same speed values to get that though ie all have to be 1066 MHz. If you go from say a 3GHz P4 to a Quad Core you really notice speed times dramatically. Faster boot-up, loading, more applications can run at multiple times etc.

Overclocking....you can pretty much overclock anything. Two things to keep in mind....heat and how much you intend to push it too. If overclock is your endgame then I would be wary of the Intel because it will run wickedly hot and that will diminish performance and could burn out your chip. If overclock is something you're considering then you may wish to get the AMD that Druid suggested but make sure you spend some bucks on the cooling system for your super puppy because it is going to need it.

AS for the support....well....9 out of 10 Chikens polled will tell you that I am about as useful as <you fill in the blank here>.

BAWK!

[SmuttyChiken]

Can't wait to see what Clank does with the Blank ... :P

[SmuttyChiken]

Oh and ...


DRUID ... that crazy Canuck is COMING ON TO YOU!!!! ... he is using his wife strategy of agreeing with what you say as foreplay ...

Dysed all you need now is a cheap wool suit ... :P :hmz

[DruidChiken]

LOL Dysed... yeh 64 the way to go :P


I agree for raw power the intel chips are currently top dog, but on a value for money the Phenoms win hands down, and the first reports ive seen on the new Phenom II's which will be out soon they will be on an equal par performance wise with the best Intel can throw at ya and still under cut them on price while doing it.

Anyways Dysed i thought you would appreciate having a mini thermo-nuclear reactor sitting in your comp tower, u need all the heat u can get being that close to the north pole.........



:ok

[ClankChiken]

LOL, blank = "fox in a hen house".:google

No doubt you have a sweet system Smut, but I think I want to start with a newer mbo and go with AMD Phenom x4 9950 or 9850. I'm undecided on mbo. I've built on both an MSI and ASUS with AMD cpu's and was happy with both machines. I hope to get at least 5 years out of what ever I build, with upgrades of course, so it needs to be as current and upgradable as possible without going over budget. :weed

It's a little overwhelming with all the choices today. It's like being the fox in the hen house, don't know which one to chomp on first. :ohyes

[PhattyChiken]

If you think my opinion counts for much, then I would sugest the following items as a base for your system and then build from there.

CPU : Intel CORE 2 QUAD Q9550/2.83GHz/12MB CACHE/1333MHz FSB/LGA775 Go here for specs http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SLAWQ

MOBO : Asus P5N72-T-PREMIUM S775 nF780i-SLI FSB1600(OC) DDR2 3xPCIE RAID LAN 1394a

Video : Asus EN9800GTX+ 512MB DDR3 HDMI x 2. Then if you need to you can buy a third one later. Just kidding.

Ram : Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF 4GB (2x XMS2 2GB) PC-8500 (1066MHz) DDR2 5-5-5-15 Dominator Airflow Fan.

The rest is up to you, as it won't make much difference to the performance. You will need to run it with Vista 64 so you can make use of the full 4GB of Ram.

Oh from a HDD point of view I would sugest that you buy 4 of them. 2 Mid sized ones say 500GB and 2 smaller ones, whatever the smallest sized ones you can buy are. Set them up in 2 Seperate RAID0 Configs. This way you can run the main OS from the 2x500Gb Set and use the second 2x100Gb set for Page file(Virtual Memory), Backup OS, and critical Data Backup. This will give you the best HDD Access speed you can get for mid price range. If you can't afford 4 HDD's then drop back to 2 and don't worry about the RAID0.

Yes I know I have a Bias towards Asus Hardware and the MoBo is pretty Exy, but the Mobo is the most critical peice of hardware. It's better to buy a good one up front, rather than buying a crap one and then having to buy a good one later because the crap one doesn't run all your other hardware properly. The Asus Bias is purely to reduce hardware compatibility issues as I have seen people spend big money on buying the best of everything from different manufactures only to find that their system totaly suxs because the Video card doesn't like the Mobo or the sound card etc.

If you prefer an AMD CPU system then I would use ATI based hardware as it will be more compatible than AMD and Nvidia.

I am not 100% sure about this, but the Onboard sound card on the Asus MoBo is actualy a seperate Sound card that comes with the MoBo and you have to install it yourself. Mine is, but this one might not be.

Anyway all this hardware is is pretty much Medium to slow edge stuff compared to whats available now, however the level of preformance is more like Cutting edge, but without the bleeding edge price tag. And that MoBo has plenty of room for upgrading.

[MoocherChiken]

I've had a couple crap ASUS mobo's before, and have since then switched to MSI. I know that Dysed and Druid will disagree with me on this, but I've had better luck with MSI boards as of late. Then again, I've had this mobo for almost three years. FAWK ME, I'm getting old.

[DruidChiken]

Yeh i likes me ASUS, but even they turn out turkeys once in a while and trust Moocher to buy them :P

Phatty good advice but i will pick u up on the If you prefer an AMD CPU system then I would use ATI based hardware as it will be more compatible than AMD and Nvidia. I have same m/board as Smutroy and its an NForce chipset so coupled with my twin 9800GTXs running SLi i can blast through Crysis on high settings with an ave frame rate on 45-50 compatibilty isnt a problem with AMD and Geforce as long as you choose the right chipset

[PhattyChiken]

Phatty good advice but i will pick u up on the I have same m/board as Smutroy and its an NForce chipset so coupled with my twin 9800GTXs running SLi i can blast through Crysis on high settings with an ave frame rate on 45-50 compatibilty isnt a problem with AMD and Geforce as long as you choose the right chipset

OK Druid you caught me out talking through my hat. I have never used anything other than Asus Hardware, except on two occasions when I let someone else decide which hardware to use. Gygabyte MoBO which I have had problems with, and an Albatron Video card that works ok.

I have seen Smutroys System, and it does run as smooth as a realy smooth thing, and it didn't cost him an arm and a leg either, so it would seem to be a very good combo of hardware. It also has lots of pretty lights that phlash off and on, and a big arsed LCD screen, which is a good thing for playing Mechy at Smutroys as there is usualy lots of Rum involved.

[DysedChiken]

Mooch, I am not drumming ASUS here. However, I have had some really good luck with the boards. I think 1 our of about 50 boards I have used has ever been a dud. Upside on the one failure-ASUS did not give me a lick of greif on warranty replacement for it.

I have had good luck with MSI, Intel, DFI and a couple of others too. With the exception of the MSI's the failure rate was much higher.

Regardless, my three machines here at home all sport ASUS and have been really faithful to me.

[SmuttyChiken]

Yeah so there Moocher ... what they are really saying is to just bend over and take it like a Rooster ... in the leg :P

[ClankChiken]

My existing machine is old, Asus A7N8X, AMD Athlon XP 2800, 3gb Ram, new vidio Sapphire HD3850/512mbGddr3/AGP (oops, PCI is current standard).

MBO - I think I'm going with the Asus/AMD mbo cpu again. Too many choices. What is the best Asus mbo and chipset (AMD or Nvidia (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149)) choice, with the best upgrade options? You'd think since I'm going with AMD cpu, AMD chipset would be the best mbo chipset combo, but I've experienced life long enought to know that's not always the case. Realizing GForce and ATI/AMD are the leading vidio chipset, I would then assume the chipset doesn't really matter, because they're both good products. Make sense, am I right? If my logic is right it would, at least, narrow the choices a little.

How about these mbo "foundations":

ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339)
ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131343)
ASUS Crosshair II Formula (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131292)Another question is, what's up with the new slot configs? (PCI Express 2 x16, Express x16) Is this the new standard slot config for all plugins? And why would you need two vidio cards for casual personal use? Most vidio cards have two monitor connections.(?) For casual gaming and business, I don't understand the need.

I think I'm going to buy in stages.
S1 mbo = ASUS <$300 (AMD/AM2+ PhenomX4, 8GB max)
S2 CPU = AMD AM2+/phenomx4
S4 Vidio = ATI or NVIDIA (PCI >=512mb, don't plan on two cards, why two?)
S5 RAM >= 4gb
S6 OS = Vista or Windows 7

This is almost like a real job. :yuk

[ClankChiken]

Look what I found

http://store.sysbuilder.com/temobu.html

[ClankChiken]

This is a cool web site.
http://www.sysbuilder.com/ Just point and click :boobs



CASE: (+136.00) ASUS VENTO 3600 BLUE Gaming Mid Tower, No Power
PS: (+ 145.00) COOLMAX 700W SLI UNPLUG PS
MB: (+ 295.00) Asus Crosshair II Formula Socket AM2+/ nForce 780a SLI/ FSB 5200/ 3-Way SLI/ A&V&2GbE/ ATX Motherboard
CPU: (+ 199.00) ** AMD Phenom X4 Quad Core Processor 9950 2.6GHz AM2+, Retail Black Edition
MEMORY: (+168.00) Crucial 4GB ,2GBX2, DDR3-1333 PC2-10600 Memory
HDD1: (+121.50) Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA2 7200rpm 16MB Hard Drive
VGA: (+305.00) ATI/SAP Radeon HD4870 512MB DDR5 2DVI/HDCP PCI-Express Video Card, RetailWhat do you think?

[DysedChiken]

Druid and I have created a monster....Clank is turning into a Hardware nerd right before our beaks.....

My only question is.....ARE YOU GOING TO OVERCLOCK?????????????????

IF YES....your rig will need liquid cooling....

If not immediately....go for it if the bucks exist in your "wife approved budget" Overclock can happen when you can upgrade cooling....

My only gripe with the phenom....runs uberhot when overclocked.

Otherwise good system for the bucks.

[Clepto Chiken]

A Stolen approved budget means she gets the new computer first.

[ClankChiken]

Yes, I expect to overclock and liquid cool the little hatchling. The wife don't care much about computers, until her's doesn't work. She will be very happy with my current computer, after it's been "family" approved. Honey I don't know how those pictures got on there..... 8-0 It's twice as fast as her's.

more to follow.....

[DysedChiken]

Is there such thing as a Stolen approved budget? Equiring minds wanna know!!!

(Clepto pay leaves his bank five seconds after being electronically deposited to his account. Electronic papertrail indicates 85% goes to paying the bills...5% to feeding choclate addiction....10%Directly spent on the lil theif..Leaving Clepto to beg even for scraps of affection)

[ClankChiken]

Got my first installment from NewEgg today.:banana

CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz Black Edition Quad-core - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471)
Mem - 2-OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR10664GK - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227289) (8gb) There is better memory but it's a start and it should work.

The next purchase, I think will be one, or more, of the following:
Mb - ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339)
Video - SAPPHIRE 100243-1GTXSR Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102815)
HD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288)
PS - hec Cougar 1000 1000W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V V2.91 SLI NVIDIA HYBRID-SLI Certified - 9800 GX2 CrossFire Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339026)
Case - SIGMA WINDSTORM WINDSTORM - WB Black 1.0 STEEL SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811226041)
I'll save the cooling for last and see how HOT! she really is. :sex COOLER MASTER RL-HUB-KBU1-GP Water Cooler - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103045)

I know it may not be the best of the best but I hope it will last me a few years and not totally break the bank. Oh and I plan on running Vista 64bit OS.

Other than "it's not Intel" how bad am I doing?

[DysedChiken]

Should give you a few years worry free.

Only time to worry about heat is when you overclock.

[ClankChiken]

The research I've done tells me I'll probably have to upgrade the MB BIOS right out of the box, which comes with built in "easy to use" overclock settings (for lazy bum's like me). After that I'll see what happens, but I expect to overclock some at first. As programs become more demanding, I'll overclock more later.

I should have it up and running in a couple months, or less.

[SpyderChiken]

Since this thread is about a new build and all I've been given a strict $500 budget to build buy whatever. I looking for whatever advice I can get. Never built from scratch so not exactly where to start, or if that's exactly what I want to do. Are the Phenom X3's worth it on the gaming side of things or would be better to go core 2 duo or Athlon X2

[ClankChiken]

Having just spent the last month researching my build, and in my opion, for those on a "budget", AMD is a great buy. You can get a lot of bang for your buck.
There's a lot of options to consider when building a PC from scratch. It's almost overwhelming. Every piece has it's own set of options but if your on a budget, for my money I went with AMD CPU and rest followed. Again, in my opion, pick the CPU, MotherBoard, chipset (amd/nforce) and video, in that order first. That will help with the other options. Good luck and happy building.

Check out the previous links on this thread. They should help as well.

[DysedChiken]

Spyder......Try Tigerdirect.com.

You may be supprised.

I hate to say it but Clank and Druid are right (cause I am hardcore Intel guy.....just never had problems with them) if your on a budget then go AMD. Try to put as much of your scheckles into from the Mobo on up.

There has been some awesome architecture listed in this thread but you can piecemeal and canibalize from your existing rides.

If you PM what rides you have I can help you sketch a machine in your existing price range that you should be able to upgrade as budget becomes available.

If you got good bones you can always build on them is my philosphy.

[SpyderChiken]

New PC has been ordered if you'd like to check it out here it is:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229076

[FreightTrainChiken]

nice ride spyder! let me know when you get it loaded and we will go kill something.

[SpyderChiken]

oh you bet I will it should be in next week some time so next weekend I will be playing unless I have to work

[ClankChiken]

Congrats Spyder. Happy gaming.

[SpyderChiken]

You know what sucks when your order is voided by paypal

[Geordie-Chiken]

Why was it voided man?

[SpyderChiken]

No clue but its reordered and already charged so it should ship Monday and be here by Wednesday

[SmuttyChiken]

Did you not have sufficient funds in your PayPal account?

[SpyderChiken]

I used my credit card through paypal the same card that i used not through paypal and it went through fine

[ClankChiken]

LAST INSTALLMENT OF THE CLANK SUPER BUDGET CRYSIS COMPUTER PURCHASED TODAY! YEA!

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10693466

Should have it humming by next week end......:headbang :humping :robot

[SmuttyChiken]

Nice Clank!

[SlackahChiken]

I bought Crysis, still in the box after Sins launched Entrenchment, but more importantly, it provided the flimsy excuse I needed to build a new gaming machine.

However, after talking with the Geek of the Week everyday for the last week at Fry's, 2 salient points emerge:

Step away from the Vista...Windows 7 Beta 64 is stable as a 2 ton flat slab of stone on level ground! Supposed to ship August.

The new I7 intel chips (1366) are multipliable, & the Scientific Term for their performance is: kick bootay.

Which of course has led me to the conclusion that my Son will get my old set up that plays Fallout 3 flawlessly on ultra everything (ok, very minor snap on panoramic movement), and I will get a Cray super computer impostor (or the makings of - using my old guts & Antec Tower): http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11253726

The 920 Nehalem Quad chip can overclock to 3.8 stable on air (with out water), and the BFG 295's in SLI config. will, well, quite simply defy Scientific description. And hey, who can't say they never wanted 6 gig of Ram?

Therefore, knowing full well that this is a totally indulgent expenditure, why try to "value-engineer" it? At least that's what I'll be telling myself. My wife on the other hand will learn of the Scientific pursuits with which I will put this marvel of technology to. (Right up until the time I have to pay her hush money for letting me get it).

[ClankChiken]

Sweet ride Slachah. Deep pockets too :money .

[DysedChiken]

Slack......YOU'RE A GOD!!!!!


:B

[SpyderChiken]

BEAUTIFUL no other word can describe it!

[ClankChiken]

Well all I can say is I'm installing Visita 64 on my new ride and loving it. I will be upgrading to Windows 7, when it's released.

Even with 6 fans, not including CPU it's rather quiet. Not nearly as load as I thought it would be. Holding off on liquid cooling until I can do more research on cooling needs and options. I've been reading the forums that I may be able to use air cooling and still overclock to around 3.8mhz @ less than 54c with 100% CPU useage for hours. (http://www.overclock.net/)